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 Post subject: Re: TRAPPIST-1
PostPosted: Fri, 03-03-17, 19:50 GMT 
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It would be fantastic to read your excellent suggestions regarding other TRAPPIST-1 planets...I will quote you, I promise. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: TRAPPIST-1
PostPosted: Fri, 03-03-17, 20:11 GMT 
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sjohn wrote:


That's why I wrote that your Enceladus ice was better than mine ;-)
I knew the link from the Russian site where you properly quoted it.

Of course I have reproduced already planet f with the 110m texture and 8k size.
Attachment:
f.jpg
f.jpg [ 67.63 KiB | Viewed 709 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: TRAPPIST-1
PostPosted: Fri, 03-03-17, 20:41 GMT 
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Nice! I have two questions:

1.) why is it that your and NASA's depiction both have HUGE cracks. Is there any scientific reason for that? Are there huge tidal forces?

2.) what is the most scientifically accurate "normal" color of the ice from high orbit?


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 Post subject: Re: TRAPPIST-1
PostPosted: Sat, 04-03-17, 15:29 GMT 
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celestia 1.6.1 test.stc ^^'

M8.2 2550k

;)

Code:
M9  2000k  red
M8  2640k  red
M7  2940k  red
M6  3050k
M5  3240k
M4  3370k
M3  3470k
M2  3580k
M1  3720k
M0  3850k


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 Post subject: Re: TRAPPIST-1
PostPosted: Sat, 04-03-17, 17:30 GMT 
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Quote:
1.) why is it that your and NASA's depiction both have HUGE cracks. Is there any scientific reason for that? Are there huge tidal forces?

-- short answer , i am on my first cup of coffee and going through the mail

Europa has a ton of cracks do to the tidal heating and it is small with a lot of liquid water under it

but

E and F are a lot bigger than Europa ( about the size of the earth)
and right now a "0" Eccentricity

while F is less dense ( aprox 0.68 +- 0.3 )

this might be low metals and small core or a lot of water
-- or a bit of both ( what i am using )

now i do agree that the ice i posted above has too much "mountains" in it , i think there would be some

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 Post subject: Re: TRAPPIST-1
PostPosted: Sat, 04-03-17, 17:47 GMT 
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John Van Vliet wrote:
Quote:
1.) why is it that your and NASA's depiction both have HUGE cracks. Is there any scientific reason for that? Are there huge tidal forces?

-- short answer , i am on my first cup of coffee and going through the mail

Europa has a ton of cracks do to the tidal heating and it is small with a lot of liquid water under it


John,

I was not "steeling" Europa's ice, but rather that of Enceladus ;-). Andrew suggested Europa. An ice planet with an atmosphere should certainly not show an abundance of craters and should not be too mountaneous. That seems like a safe constraint. Enceladus does have an atmosphere and a sub-ice ocean. There are some substantial crater fields, however,at places.

Anyway, our various texture experiments help finding the best-looking ice field.
Also: in my first attempt of steeling some ice texture from Enceladus, I was not aware yet of this 16k rectangular color texture. My first Enceladus-based texture therefore had too big ice sheets, as Andrew correctly observed.

I would certainly like to see what improvements one would address next in a povray approach?

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 Post subject: Re: TRAPPIST-1
PostPosted: Sat, 04-03-17, 20:07 GMT 
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Here is my interpretation of TRAPPIST-1g, using
1.) Europe bump map
2.) Earth bump map
3.) fictive Earth-like surface
textures + a lot of "NASA" green. :)

Attachment:
TRAPPIST-1g.png
TRAPPIST-1g.png [ 1.72 MiB | Viewed 682 times ]


I think TRAPPIST-1e is a waterworld, but without ice fields (it is too hot for ice fields). A few small islands would be fun...

Attachment:
TRAPPIST-1e.png
TRAPPIST-1e.png [ 724.64 KiB | Viewed 682 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: TRAPPIST-1
PostPosted: Sat, 04-03-17, 20:10 GMT 
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symaski62 wrote:
celestia 1.6.1 test.stc ^^'

M8.2 2550k

;)

Code:
M9  2000k  red
M8  2640k  red
M7  2940k  red
M6  3050k
M5  3240k
M4  3370k
M3  3470k
M2  3580k
M1  3720k
M0  3850k

symaski62,

just look at star.cpp and notably at starcolors.cpp of the Celestia sources! Then you may inspect my respective analysis:

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=828&start=60#p14733

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 Post subject: Re: TRAPPIST-1
PostPosted: Sat, 04-03-17, 21:30 GMT 
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correction
yes Enceladus

both are ice and start with an E

Quote:
I think TRAPPIST-1e is a waterworld, but without ice fields (it is too hot for ice fields). A few small islands would be fun...

with E the basic opposite of F
i would think there would be ice on the antisolar point. that area should be cold and have ice

like this - the antisolar is at +90 E / 0 lat ( there is a bit too much land and i exaggerated the height of the ice )

Image

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 Post subject: Re: TRAPPIST-1
PostPosted: Sun, 05-03-17, 20:57 GMT 
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Just some thougts...

As far as I know no spectral analysis was done yet.
Accordingly, it is hypothetical that water exists on the surface.
However, if water of an oceanic size exists on the planet, turbulent convection flows are to be expected. Within their atmospheres and oceans.

Which again results in powerful atmospheric movements (Evaporation). Permanent evaporation could lead to a completely closed cloud cover. On the sun-facing half.

However on the day/night border kilometer-high icebergs would have to pile up. From which glaciers slowly move back into the sea. Where they evaporate again and form an everlasting water cycle. Provided the planets are gravitationally bound.

But this does not have to be necessarily. In my opinion the system is still very "young". About 1 billion years old. And the planets have moved successively inwards. And it may take several years, until a planet has stopped its rotation completely. Also, the gravitational forces with which the planets influence each other may play a not insignificant role. Regarding the weak force of attraction of their star.

I personally like the map of John Van Vliet. The turquoise water coloring could indicate cyanobacteria.

But... The star emits only very weak infrared light. No ultraviolet light. Which is necessary to split molecular chains. To stimulate new molecular connections...

Michael


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 Post subject: Re: TRAPPIST-1
PostPosted: Sun, 05-03-17, 21:15 GMT 
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i am assuming that the active state of the young star( almost not) would sterilize or nearly so the planets

with a bit more iron in the system the green blue water would be non oxygenated iron and other dissolved minerals

with so little data the 2k images i have posted might be a good size

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 Post subject: Re: TRAPPIST-1
PostPosted: Sun, 05-03-17, 21:22 GMT 
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Thanks for your info, MiR. In the NASA images I see this logic:

1.) closer to the star the temperature is higher

2.) the tidally locked position means either too hot or too cold environment

3.) the atmosphere distributes the heat

4.) liquid water and ice is a possibility on d, e, f, and g.


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 Post subject: Re: TRAPPIST-1
PostPosted: Sun, 05-03-17, 21:46 GMT 
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@ sjohn

Yes, this is the most likely Scenario...

but just not verified ;)


Michael


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 Post subject: Re: TRAPPIST-1
PostPosted: Sun, 05-03-17, 21:54 GMT 
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It is very interesting to create a realistic exoplanet with Celestia, because with 8k textures you can clearly see the unfortunate limits of human knowledge. It is a great learning process. Glad to be living in interesting times.


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 Post subject: Re: TRAPPIST-1
PostPosted: Mon, 06-03-17, 21:55 GMT 
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Interesting to consider how much we don't know. We don't even know that these planets are in 1:1 synchronous rotation. Depending on their actual properties, Mercury-like 3:2 spin-orbit resonances may not be out of the question. Not sure what that would do in terms of tidally-induced volcanism but I suspect it wouldn't be pretty!


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