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 Post subject: Buran problems.
PostPosted: Wed, 18-05-11, 19:59 GMT 
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Joined: Wed, 18-05-11, 13:55 GMT
Posts: 7
I have downloaded and installed the "The flight of Buran" plugin located elsewhere on this site.

The models it contains are amazing, but I'm seeing several odd things

1) Several times during the script, the view leaves the models and I'm left seeing blank space or water (at the part of the script where the booster is said to be sunk). I thought I read somewhere that the newest celestia release changed the location measurements.. could this be due to that?

2) Most of the time, the models are inside a translucent gray cube;
Image

3) At launch, there are two Huge spheres on either side of the vehicle;
Image

Here are a few other screen captures taken during the script
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/j0hnga1t/buran-launch2.png
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/j0hnga1t/buran-launch.png
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/j0hnga1t/buran-flight2.png
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/j0hnga1t/buran-flight1.png

This is an amazing work, I'd really love to see it without these interferences.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed, 18-05-11, 20:10 GMT 
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Location: Hamburg, Germany
Hi tk421,

welcome at CelestialMatters!

I am not familiar with the Buran add-on. But I'll send the authors a note right away. I hope one of them will respond without much delay.

Fridger

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed, 18-05-11, 22:16 GMT 
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t00fri wrote:
Hi tk421,

welcome at CelestialMatters!

I am not familiar with the Buran add-on. But I'll send the authors a note right away. I hope one of them will respond without much delay.

Fridger


Thanks :) 1-for the warm welcome, 2-For approving my account and 3- for alerting the authors. It really is an amazing package, I hope there's an easy fix 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed, 18-05-11, 22:28 GMT 
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There is an easy fix for the lines surrounding the models: go find my latest posts on shatters.net, and locate the "placeholder.cmod" file. This one is also in the other newer add-ons i produced, btw. There is a .cmod file and a .png file, in the models and medres directories respectively.

Replace the placeholder in the Buran Add-On with this one, and the semi-opaque stuff should disappear. The reason for it happening is that some Celestia version don´t treat transparency very good in some instances.

As for the views oriented the wrong way, yes, that surely has to do with differences in the newer Celestia compared to the version the Buran Add-On was produced for (it is several years old!)

Regrettably, i do not have time to work on Buran now. But you or anybody that wishes are free to edit the celx script themselves. It isn´t hard, it just requires time for testing and fine-tuning; there are some numerical values for camera orientation you need to re-align to how Celestia does calculates orientation now.

- rthorvald


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed, 18-05-11, 23:52 GMT 
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Good to see you, Runar!

Fridger

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue, 06-09-11, 2:04 GMT 
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Hi folks,
I am having trouble with a project I am working on and notice the same problem is evident with Runar's Buran.

Specifically, when the observer is close to the surface of the earth looking at a model, eg Buran on launch pad or later on the runway, the planets surface jumps about and at times covers parts of the model. Also, the sky breaks up with many black areas appearing. I have tested this in versions 1.5.1 and 1.6.0 with the same results in both.

Does anyone know what is causing this and how I might stop it?

ChrisA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue, 06-09-11, 9:28 GMT 
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HuonPine wrote:
Hi folks,
I am having trouble with a project I am working on and notice the same problem is evident with Runar's Buran.

Specifically, when the observer is close to the surface of the earth looking at a model, eg Buran on launch pad or later on the runway, the planets surface jumps about and at times covers parts of the model. Also, the sky breaks up with many black areas appearing. I have tested this in versions 1.5.1 and 1.6.0 with the same results in both.

Does anyone know what is causing this and how I might stop it?

ChrisA


Hi Chris,

I have not encountered such effects more recently. However, I am rarely using add-ons. Are you working VT tiles or a single texture in the case where your problem happens? Otherwise, I might imagine that it's once more a problem with the precision of floating point numbers. We had this "hole in the sky" effect a lot in earlier versions, but more recently I have never observed it again. Version 1.6.0 is effectively very old, and in the SVN trunk version lots of fixes have been applied since the 1.6.0 release. Many people build the latest SVN version themselves which is not very difficult in any OS. Also the MS compiler suite (Visual Studio 2011 Express) is free and straightforward to install.

Do you feel that your problem might be specific to Buran? If yes I try to send Runar a note. For professional reasons, he's only rarely coming in these days.

Do you know that we have an official Celestia release 1.6.1 meanwhile?

Fridger


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu, 08-09-11, 6:16 GMT 
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Hi Fridger,
Thanks for your prompt reply. And sorry that I have not been as quick with my response. I have now updated to v1.6.1 and re-tested. The problem remains.

To answer your questions in turn;
I am using VT tiles, Jestr Earth plus some higher res tiles for my local area, but the problem occurs even with the 'normal' surface selected.

The problem is not specific to Buran. I have been working on a project where the observer begins among some buildings on the surface of earth looking at the horizon. The observer then rises into the air and looks back at the receeding buildings. The problem is that the surface of the earth jiggles about and covers the lower parts of the buildings. I loaded the Buran models to see if the same problem occured with someone else's models on the surface, which it does. I have taken a couple of screen shots showing this problem but am unsure of how to upload them.

It seems strange if others are are not having this problem as I am getting it with different versions of Celestia (including 1.6.1) running on two different pc's (both win xp sp3) Both pcs have nvidia cards, but different models. One is Geforce 8400GS, the other Quadro fx3400.

As I write this message I am doing some more tests and get the feeling that the problem relates to the observer being within the radius of a model (as specified in the ssc file, not within the model its self). I will post this now and get down to more testing. Any advice or ideas would be grealty appreciated.

Many thanks
ChrisA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue, 13-09-11, 0:36 GMT 
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A quick follow up to add the images refered to above (I hope)
The first image shows Buran on the surface,
Image

The second shows the Earth surface partly covering the model
Image

ChrisA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue, 13-09-11, 20:40 GMT 
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Location: Upstate NY, USA
Can you provide a picture from the side, showing the relationship between the models and the earth's surface? I've seen things like this happen when the model actually is partially below the surface. A workaround might be to provide your own model of the surface (ground, launch pad, roadways, etc) in the vicinity of the spacecraft.

However, Celestia does frequently have problems displaying the relationship between objects which are "close together" and have large differences in their sizes. I sometimes see flickering jagged edges drawn as overlapping where surfaces are close to one another. My supposition has been that it's due to numeric roundoff or truncation errors in the graphics hardware. Often changing the viewpoint will eliminate them -- e.g. by moving the viewpoint farther away and increasing the magnification, or moving closer and reducing it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon, 19-09-11, 1:09 GMT 
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Hi Selden, thanks for the response.

I am currently busy with other work and so have not had time to do any more with Celestia lately. Here is a quick repsonse to your coments.

I have placed the models above the Earths surface (100 meters) and the problem still occurs. Some of the models I am using are quite large. One is a complex of buildings and a football oval that has a radius of over 1 kilometer.

As I understand the way Celestia deals with models, the scale is set by the radius in the ssc file. The location of the model is the location of the center of the sphere described by the radius. If I am correct in this then the sphere containing the model is partially below the surface, even though there are no actual model components below the surface. Perhaps I need to break the large model into seperate components, however the spheres surounding these will still overlap?

I will try your suggested workaround (providing some planet surface as part of the model) when I get a chance.

I will post an update when I have done some more testing.
Thanks,
ChrisA


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