It is currently Tue, 23-01-18, 11:46 GMT

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 20:35 GMT 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri, 31-08-07, 7:01 GMT
Posts: 4519
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Runar,

thanks, that's useful like this. So let's see where we will end up ;-)

F.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 20:37 GMT 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri, 31-08-07, 20:59 GMT
Posts: 1605
Location: Norway
Well, Fridger and Chris suggests that the exhaust should have a bluish tint, while Andrea shows us an orange. I think we should follow the pictures, here.

Andrea, if you play with this, please post some more pics...

My original files are deep orange/yellow, but that is wrong too - it must obviously be much whiter than you can see in the screenshots in our original work thread.

- rthorvald


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 21:32 GMT 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri, 31-08-07, 7:01 GMT
Posts: 4519
Location: Hamburg, Germany
rthorvald wrote:
Well, Fridger and Chris suggests that the exhaust should have a bluish tint, while Andrea shows us an orange. I think we should follow the pictures, here.


Oh Runar, it seems you misunderstood my previous comments entirely! I have no personal preference for either bluish or yellowish plasma colors! I actually suggested to use real photos from the net which Andrea indeed located. Please read again carefully what my point about the rocket exhaust color really was...
Fridger wrote:
@Runar:
...the uniformly cyan blue exhaust color of the rocket engines. This does NOT look like a 1000'ds of degrees hot plasma! It rather looks like uniformly "colored ice creme" ;-) . It's the same issue as with Runar's sun add-on which is FAR too yellow. At such high temperatures and intensities the eye cannot tell such colors anymore.

The exhaust must be intensively white with just a tint of blue.

@Andrea:
This is a nice image, but I am afraid the exhaust hot plasma looks more like yellow-whitish plastic covers. I think the exhaust color profile is much too monochromatic. I know it's difficult. Perhaps one can misuse some real photo in the net as a start?


Quote:
Andrea, if you play with this, please post some more pics...

My original files are deep orange/yellow, but that is wrong too - it must obviously be much whiter than you can see in the screenshots in our original work thread.


THAT was precisely my original point. The human eye is unable to see these colors at such high brilliance levels!

F.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 22:39 GMT 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun, 02-09-07, 16:06 GMT
Posts: 346
Location: Rome, Italy
And here is how my engines exhaust color textures, previously shown, appear when linked to Runar's smoke and flames contained in the th_buran_extra addon file:

Image

And here an image of a real Shuttle launch, luckily with a very similar environment:

Image

I think that, even if not perfectly matching, this is a very close approach to the real images shown here and in my previous post. 8)
BTW, both images are, except for their size, absolutely without changes or improvements, no sharpening or brightness- contrast- saturation- colour adjustements, they are exactly how they were originally.
What do you think?
In my opinion the engines core should be more white, but how to do this?
I don't know, sorry. :oops:
Bye

Andrea :D

_________________
Andrea
WorldPoss Sn Team Member
Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 3.6 GHz- 4 GB DDR2- DELL 2709W 1920x1200-WinXP 32 SP3- VISTA 64- ASUS P5K-E- 8800 GTX 768MB- SATA II 320-300 GB-IDE 1 TB- 169.21- Celestia1.4.1_patch3- 1.5.1-LUA Edu Tools


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 22:46 GMT 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri, 31-08-07, 20:59 GMT
Posts: 1605
Location: Norway
Quote:
In my opinion the engines core should be more white, but how to do this?


Enhance the contrast a little on the exhaust and glow png. But not much, or all texture will be washed out.

But the glow effect is an SSC atmosphere definition. we might modify that a little, it is perhaps too grey.

... Personally, i think it is more interesting to see this without the plumes, as that is how the default Add-On is presented. The plumes are a separate download. Also, they are not used outside the atmosphere, only during launch.

- rthorvald


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 23:03 GMT 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun, 02-09-07, 16:06 GMT
Posts: 346
Location: Rome, Italy
rthorvald wrote:
Quote:
In my opinion the engines core should be more white, but how to do this?

Enhance the contrast a little on the exhaust and glow png. But not much, or all texture will be washed out.

I'll try it, even if I already worked both contrast and luminosity. 8)

rthorvald wrote:
But the glow effect is an SSC atmosphere definition. we might modify that a little, it is perhaps too grey.

I'm lost in the Celestia 1.5.0 new ssc definitions regarding atmosphere, what are the involved parameters to modify? :oops:

rthorvald wrote:
... Personally, i think it is more interesting to see this without the plumes, as that is how the default Add-On is presented. The plumes are a separate download. Also, they are not used outside the atmosphere, only during launch.- rthorvald

I know you have this opinion, but from a spectacularity point of view it should be a big missing, IMO.
Thanks a lot, Runar.
Bye

Andrea :D

_________________
Andrea
WorldPoss Sn Team Member
Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 3.6 GHz- 4 GB DDR2- DELL 2709W 1920x1200-WinXP 32 SP3- VISTA 64- ASUS P5K-E- 8800 GTX 768MB- SATA II 320-300 GB-IDE 1 TB- 169.21- Celestia1.4.1_patch3- 1.5.1-LUA Edu Tools


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 23:15 GMT 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri, 31-08-07, 20:59 GMT
Posts: 1605
Location: Norway
Quote:
I'm lost in the Celestia 1.5.0 new ssc definitions regarding atmosphere, what are the involved parameters to modify?


Well, in the th_buran_extras.ssc file, you can see this block:
Quote:
Atmosphere {
Height 0.050
Lower [ 0.99 0.97 0.95 ]
Upper [ 0.99 0.97 0.95 ]
}


... It is repeated a number of times in the file, so if you modify it, you must search/replace to update all of them. You can play with the lower and upper variables to change the color and brightness of the exhaust.
The closer you get to 1 the whiter it gets. The values are for Red Green and Blue, it works the same way you would fine-tune a television set.

You should not modify its height, it is the variations in height in its different iterations that gives the plume its shape.

Quote:
rthorvald wrote:
Quote:
... Personally, i think it is more interesting to see this without the plumes, as that is how the default Add-On is presented. The plumes are a separate download. Also, they are not used outside the atmosphere, only during launch.- rthorvald

I know you have this opinion, but from a spectacularity point of view it should be a big missing, IMO.

It is impractical to implement it after the ship starts to turn. We would have to populate the browser with a lot of useless names, and the SSC code would become very bloated. I do not see the need for it either, the plumes are just a "special effect" for the launch in my opinion. That is way i did not include it in the default download.

- rthorvald


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 23:41 GMT 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun, 02-09-07, 16:06 GMT
Posts: 346
Location: Rome, Italy
rthorvald wrote:
Quote:
I'm lost in the Celestia 1.5.0 new ssc definitions regarding atmosphere, what are the involved parameters to modify?

Well, in the th_buran_extras.ssc file, you can see this block:
Quote:
Atmosphere {
Height 0.050
Lower [ 0.99 0.97 0.95 ]
Upper [ 0.99 0.97 0.95 ]
}

... It is repeated a number of times in the file, so if you modify it, you must search/replace to update all of them. You can play with the lower and upper variables to change the color and brightness of the exhaust.
The closer you get to 1 the whiter it gets. The values are for Red Green and Blue, it works the same way you would fine-tune a television set.
You should not modify its height, it is the variations in height in its different iterations that gives the plume its shape.

Oh, only this? I was thinking I had to change a lot of parameters.
So much the better.
Done. :D

rthorvald wrote:
Quote:
Personally, i think it is more interesting to see this without the plumes, as that is how the default Add-On is presented. The plumes are a separate download. Also, they are not used outside the atmosphere, only during launch.- rthorvald

I know you have this opinion, but from a spectacularity point of view it should be a big missing, IMO. It is impractical to implement it after the ship starts to turn. We would have to populate the browser with a lot of useless names, and the SSC code would become very bloated. I do not see the need for it either, the plumes are just a "special effect" for the launch in my opinion. That is way i did not include it in the default download.- rthorvald

Sorry, I was not clear, I was meaning it should be a big missing during the launch phases only.
I agree that after the launch they are not usable.
Bye and thank you.

Andrea :D

_________________
Andrea
WorldPoss Sn Team Member
Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 3.6 GHz- 4 GB DDR2- DELL 2709W 1920x1200-WinXP 32 SP3- VISTA 64- ASUS P5K-E- 8800 GTX 768MB- SATA II 320-300 GB-IDE 1 TB- 169.21- Celestia1.4.1_patch3- 1.5.1-LUA Edu Tools


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu, 28-02-08, 11:10 GMT 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri, 31-08-07, 20:59 GMT
Posts: 1605
Location: Norway
Chris Laurel has produced a sampledorientation file for Buran.
This has two great advantages over the existing code:

- It will make the ship turn smoothly and more naturally on the three occasions it changes orientation
- It will reduce the SSC file tremendously - it will become small enough to be readable by humans, not only by Celestia :-D

So,
The update to 1.1 will have this. What is missing, then, is:

- Christophe´s "final touch" on the Booster details
- Andrea´s result with the exhaust colors

- rthorvald


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri, 29-02-08, 0:17 GMT 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun, 02-09-07, 16:06 GMT
Posts: 346
Location: Rome, Italy
rthorvald wrote:
Chris Laurel has produced a sampledorientation file for Buran.
This has two great advantages over the existing code:
- It will make the ship turn smoothly and more naturally on the three occasions it changes orientation
- It will reduce the SSC file tremendously - it will become small enough to be readable by humans, not only by Celestia :-D

This is a very important improvement, my thanks to Chris Laurel! :D

rthorvald wrote:
So, The update to 1.1 will have this. What is missing, then, is:
- Christophe´s "final touch" on the Booster details
- Andrea´s result with the exhaust colors
rthorvald

Well, here my little cent.
I modified a bit more (just a little) the contrast of the two textures th_exhaust.png and the_glow.png
And then I modified, as suggested by you, the values of atmosphere “lowerâ€

_________________
Andrea
WorldPoss Sn Team Member
Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 3.6 GHz- 4 GB DDR2- DELL 2709W 1920x1200-WinXP 32 SP3- VISTA 64- ASUS P5K-E- 8800 GTX 768MB- SATA II 320-300 GB-IDE 1 TB- 169.21- Celestia1.4.1_patch3- 1.5.1-LUA Edu Tools


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri, 29-02-08, 0:31 GMT 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri, 31-08-07, 20:59 GMT
Posts: 1605
Location: Norway
Compared to your pic of the american shuttle, should not the color be a little more pronounced - like in the bottom pic?

- rthorvald

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri, 29-02-08, 0:42 GMT 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun, 02-09-07, 16:06 GMT
Posts: 346
Location: Rome, Italy
rthorvald wrote:
Compared to your pic of the american shuttle, should not the color be a little more pronounced - like in the bottom pic?
- rthorvald

Runar, sincerely I have many doubts, and I'll try to explain them:
all the images I have shown in this thread are from unknown cameras, filters, post-production enhancements, and what else, a lot of things, indeed, that can vary a lot the final appearance of the exhaust. :shock:
So I tend to agree with Fridger: a very strong luminous source should have almost no colours when seen by human eyes.
But you are the leader, so I'll change the file as you prefer.
But IMHO perhaps it's better to wait for some other comments, do you agree? :roll:
Bye

Andrea :D

_________________
Andrea
WorldPoss Sn Team Member
Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 3.6 GHz- 4 GB DDR2- DELL 2709W 1920x1200-WinXP 32 SP3- VISTA 64- ASUS P5K-E- 8800 GTX 768MB- SATA II 320-300 GB-IDE 1 TB- 169.21- Celestia1.4.1_patch3- 1.5.1-LUA Edu Tools


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri, 29-02-08, 0:47 GMT 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri, 31-08-07, 20:59 GMT
Posts: 1605
Location: Norway
Andrea wrote:
So I tend to agree with Fridger: a very strong luminous source should have almost no colours when seen by human eyes.


I think this is sensible, i was just wondering, since you demonstrated the colors earlier.

- rthorvald


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri, 29-02-08, 7:29 GMT 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri, 31-08-07, 7:01 GMT
Posts: 4519
Location: Hamburg, Germany
I definitely agree with Andrea's choice... and reasoning ;-)

F.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon, 10-03-08, 19:39 GMT 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun, 02-09-07, 16:06 GMT
Posts: 346
Location: Rome, Italy
Happy to inform that finally one of the Buran, the one that was in Bahrain, will have it's due location, i.e. in a Museum.
It has been sold by the Russian Molniya Company to the Sinsheim/Speyer Museum in Germany, whose web pages you can find here:
http://www.technik-museum.de/uk/speyer/
The link to the Buran delivery images is here:
http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-bu ... speyer.php
Bye

Andrea :D

_________________
Andrea
WorldPoss Sn Team Member
Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 3.6 GHz- 4 GB DDR2- DELL 2709W 1920x1200-WinXP 32 SP3- VISTA 64- ASUS P5K-E- 8800 GTX 768MB- SATA II 320-300 GB-IDE 1 TB- 169.21- Celestia1.4.1_patch3- 1.5.1-LUA Edu Tools


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group