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PostPosted: Mon, 11-08-08, 0:09 GMT 
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rthorvald wrote:
ElChristou wrote:
Runar, the cable between the balloon and the antenna is not supposed to be much longer?
Concerning the model, is this a final one?

Suggestions are welcome!
I don´t think the tether should be longer, it does not look that way in the photo i have:- rthorvald

hello Runar, first of all... very nice, congratulations to you and to Christophe, too.
Look here:

Image



Regarding the cable length, I feel Christophe is right, the cable should be just a little more than the double length of the instruments pack, as shown in this comparison: :wink:

Image

BTW, the balloon shape should not be spherical, IMHO.
Is it possible to modify it, as in the real image?
Bye and thank you.

Andrea :D

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PostPosted: Mon, 11-08-08, 0:35 GMT 
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OOPS!
CORRECTION TO MY PREVIOUS POST:


From NASA here
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/spacecraftDisplay.do?id=1984-128F
we read that the system was composed by

a 3.4 meter diameter balloon, and a gondola, suspended below the balloon by
a 13 meter long tether strap.
The gondola was 1.2 meters high


This means that surely in the above real image the cable was not fully deployed (probably for vertical space problems).
The cable length was more than 10 times the gondola height, and about 3.82 times the balloon diameter.
But at the same time the balloon was almost 3 times wider than the gondola length, so I suppose that in the realimage it was not fully inflated.
Taking as basic dimension = 1 the
gondola length (1.2 m), the
balloon (3.4 m) should be 2.83 times wide, and the
cable (13.0 m) 10.83 times long.

Sorry to find it so late, Runar, hope this doesn’t mean a lot of work for you.
Bye

Andrea

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PostPosted: Mon, 11-08-08, 2:21 GMT 
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Quote:
Sorry to find it so late, Runar, hope this doesn’t mean a lot of work for you.


This is great. Many thanks! And no, not much work. I just have to realign some details of the XYZ and SSC files, the model itself is easy.

- rthorvald


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PostPosted: Mon, 11-08-08, 7:33 GMT 
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rthorvald wrote:
Quote:
Sorry to find it so late, Runar, hope this doesn’t mean a lot of work for you.

This is great. Many thanks! And no, not much work. I just have to realign some details of the XYZ and SSC files, the model itself is easy.
- rthorvald

Happy to know it, Runar, you are welcome! :wink:
Bye

Andrea :D

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PostPosted: Mon, 11-08-08, 7:51 GMT 
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rthorvald wrote:
ElChristou wrote:
Runar, the cable between the balloon and the antenna is not supposed to be much longer?

Concerning the model, is this a final one?

Suggestions are welcome!


Not really, it's just about the constraint of many meshes. I have a lot of not so cool shadows here and there... :? (if you want to send me the JAS, no problem...)

rthorvald wrote:
I don´t think the tether should be longer, it does not look that way in the photo i have:


Runar, one, two, three docs are sometimes not enough to get the correct stuff... Now, it's nice Andrea find another source but look at one of the picture (drawing) you send me! :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon, 11-08-08, 7:55 GMT 
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Andrea, concerning the balloon, as you point out it wasn't fully inflated in the image above. I think once at his max size there is some chance it was an almost perfect sphere. What do you think?


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PostPosted: Mon, 11-08-08, 9:28 GMT 
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ElChristou wrote:
Andrea, concerning the balloon, as you point out it wasn't fully inflated in the image above. I think once at his max size there is some chance it was an almost perfect sphere. What do you think?

Christophe, I fear the thing is not that easy.
Actually I have no data on Venusian atmospheric pressure at 50 Km height, and obviously I'm not expert of the involved dinamics, but prabably you are right, if the inner volume was filled with high-pressure helium to oppose the external high pressure, I think.
But we need some expert here, sorry. :(
Bye

Andrea :D

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PostPosted: Mon, 11-08-08, 12:43 GMT 
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ElChristou wrote:
Not really, it's just about the constraint of many meshes. I have a lot of not so cool shadows here and there... Confused (if you want to send me the JAS, no problem...)

If you would like to look at it, i´d be most happy to. Will mail it over later today...

ElChristou wrote:
one, two, three docs are sometimes not enough to get the correct stuff...

Indeed, i know that. But in this case, we don´t have much - i have searched for months... It is a stroke of luck (or rather, Andrea´s Google-Fu black belt) that we got this info now :-D

- rthorvald


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PostPosted: Mon, 11-08-08, 13:05 GMT 
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ElChristou wrote:
...but look at one of the picture (drawing) you send me! :wink:


And this one?? (top/left corner)
Image


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PostPosted: Mon, 11-08-08, 13:19 GMT 
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ElChristou wrote:
And this one??

Sloppy... I did not see the gondola to scale in it...

I am updating the JAS now for the new info, and will send it to you when i am done. If you want to adjust the constraints; i am constantly testing it versus the smoothing by CMODtool, and your input is very much appreciated.

- rthorvald


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PostPosted: Wed, 13-08-08, 10:15 GMT 
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Runar, searching for other things I found this page, regarding the Proton 8K82K/11S824M, i.e. the one that launched VEGA probes:
http://www.friends-partners.org/partner ... os824m.htm
And here one lo-res Proton K image:

Image

while its hi-res is here:
http://ftp.tiscali.it/andrea_celestia/Proton_8K82K-1S824M.jpg

And here two VEGA images

Image

Image

As you see the lander shows the second wide ring. :shock:
Hope this may be useful. :wink:
Bye

Andrea
(digging, and digging, and digging, and...) :D

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PostPosted: Wed, 13-08-08, 12:57 GMT 
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As I go on searching in the web, I become more convincted that there is really almost everything! :shock:
Give a look here:
http://arc.iki.rssi.ru/ssp/vstamps.html
But this is more serious, it's an analysis of all Russian Venus missions trajectories, pages 44-48 are very interesting:
http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/bitstream/2014/37338/1/03-2619.pdf

Here we have the detailed description of all VEGA instruments but, alas, it's missing the images.
http://burro.astr.cwru.edu/stu/advanced/20th_soviet_vega.html
Something useful?
Bye

Andrea :D

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Last edited by Andrea on Wed, 13-08-08, 13:37 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed, 13-08-08, 13:09 GMT 
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Thanks!
Most of the info in the PDF we already have, though. The stamps is a charming addition :-D

However, i am currently working on the lander, and detail on the instruments attached to it is the most pressing issue (i have a good understanding of the lander itself). Many thanks for clearing up the matter of the second ring, btw.

The lander will take a few weeks. After that, i´ll tackle the Bus, saving the Proton for last (which is the simplest job).

- rthorvald


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PostPosted: Wed, 13-08-08, 13:36 GMT 
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rthorvald wrote:
Thanks!
Most of the info in the PDF we already have, though. The stamps is a charming addition :-D
However, i am currently working on the lander, and detail on the instruments attached to it is the most pressing issue.

I know, but up to now no fortune, except the description given in this link
http://burro.astr.cwru.edu/stu/advanced/20th_soviet_vega.html
rthorvald wrote:
Many thanks for clearing up the matter of the second ring, btw.- rthorvald

Regarding this, here another image that confirms both types of images we have seen up to now:

Image

It seems that when entering the atmosphere there is only one ring, but after landing there is another one, like seen in many images and the above drawing.
I find it a bit minsterious, don't you? :shock:
Found no document explaining this.
Bye

Andrea
(digging, and digging, and digging, and...) :D

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PostPosted: Wed, 13-08-08, 14:00 GMT 
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Runar, I found this very interesting link
http://vsm.host.ru/e_vrml.htm
where I found some images of intrument bay and single instruments on VEGA2:
VEGA TV platform:

Image

Vega Lander 1-2-3-4-5:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Venera 13 Soil sampler (the same of VEGA2):

Image

And here two 3D models found here:
this is the VEGA2
http://vsm.host.ru/vega.wrl
and this is the Vega2 Lander
http://vsm.host.ru/venlnd.wrl
that surely you can open with your modelling soft.
Tell me if this is of any help.
Bye

Andrea
(digging, and... OK, OK, that's enough, I'll stop here!) :lol:

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Last edited by Andrea on Wed, 13-08-08, 14:03 GMT, edited 2 times in total.

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