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PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 10:35 GMT 
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EDIT: this concerns the exhaust fire colors on the spacecrafts. This is the picture in question:
Image

MonaLisa



I don't like that picture because of two physically incorrect aspects:

-- the uniformly cyan blue exhaust color of the rocket engines. This does NOT look like a 1000'ds of degrees hot plasma! It rather looks like uniformly "colored ice creme" ;-) . It's the same issue as with Runar's sun add-on which is FAR too yellow. At such high temperatures and intensities the eye cannot tell such colors anymore. The exhaust must be intensively white with just a tint of blue.

--The default Celestia atmosphere is still badly incorrect in particular in this view. The dark foregound puts lots of emphasis on this incorrect appearance. The lower parts of the atmosphere are far too yellow/orange.

http://chamorrobible.org/images/photos/ ... -large.jpg

[EDIT:] see below for a more directly comparable, recent sunset image from NASA taken from the ISS space station

F.


Last edited by t00fri on Sun, 10-02-08, 11:14 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 10:50 GMT 
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Bleargh missed that. Serves me right for trying to review stuff after being kept awake all night by building works (apparently on Saturday it is perfectly legal to keep going right through the night, so its been going on continuously for at least 27 hours now...)


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PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 11:00 GMT 
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Here is more recent NASA imaging of Earth sunsets from spacecraft/satellites (ISS) that is directly comparable to Celestia's incorrect coloration:

Image
Image

I just know how it must look from /correct/ Mie theory spectral predictions.

F.


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PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 12:53 GMT 
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Ok, thanks for the text correction. Will have to find a different image, then... But will not fake the appearance of the exhaust, it must be a pic of the actual add-on.

However, Andrea, too, has some misgivings about the exhaust color. I think it needs a workover for version 1.1.

- Runar


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PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 15:30 GMT 
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t00fri wrote:
Well...
2) graphics: I don't mind so much the darkness of the foreground, yet I don't like that picture because of two physically incorrect aspects:
-- the uniformly cyan blue exhaust color of the rocket engines. This does NOT look like a 1000'ds of degrees hot plasma! It rather looks like uniformly "colored ice creme" ;-) ....At such high temperatures and intensities the eye cannot tell such colors anymore. The exhaust must be intensively white with just a tint of blue. F.

Fridger, do you mean like this one?

Image

Bye

Andrea :D

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PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 15:43 GMT 
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Andrea,

this is a nice image, but I am afraid the exhaust hot plasma looks more like yellow-whitish plastic covers. I think the exhaust color profile is much too monochromatic. I know it's difficult. Perhaps one can misuse some real photo in the net as a start?

F.

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PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 16:05 GMT 
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t00fri wrote:
Andrea, this is a nice image, but I am afraid the exhaust hot plasma looks more like yellow-whitish plastic covers. I think the exhaust color profile is much too monochromatic. I know it's difficult. Perhaps one can misuse some real photo in the net as a start? F.


Fridger, as you know I'm used to document before trying, and as usual I did, as you can see here: :wink:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

The problem is that we miss some good image of the engine exhaust as seen from the nozzles end, and that our model is lacking glow and flames, so it's very difficult to interpret the color of something that's missing such important details in the final rendering.
But I think we are very close to the real thing, now. :wink:
At least IMHO.
Bye

Andrea :D

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PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 16:30 GMT 
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Andreas,

yes in some of the pictures one can see how bright and hot the outflowing gas is, notably at night. In empty space there might still be significant differences compared to your images that are all ~ from the Earth surface.

As an example, just compare the output brilliance in the last image (just the one above my post) compared to the dull, "soft plastic" impression of your original attempt.

Cheers,
F.

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PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 16:45 GMT 
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t00fri wrote:
Andreas, yes in some of the pictures one can see how bright and hot the outflowing gas is, notably at night. In empty space there might still be significant differences compared to your images that are all ~ from the Earth surface.
As an example, just compare the output brilliance in the last image (just the one above my post) compared to the dull, "soft plastic" impression of your original attempt. Cheers,
F.

Fridger, I already manifested my doubt on the real colour of exhausts in space, and I agree on the dullness and "soft plastic" impression in my trial, but how can we show such real, brilliant, glowing colours without artificial graphic additions (rays or what else)? :shock:
Sincerely I don't know.
But I would like to have the possibility to test this exhaust color with Runar's glow and plumes added, just to have a more complete comparison.
Runar, can we?
Bye

Andrea (not Andreas, anyhow :lol: )

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PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 16:58 GMT 
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Andrea wrote:

Andrea (not Andreas, anyhow :lol: )


Oh sorry for the typo. You know, my most long-time scientific collaborator (7 years!) [besides my wife] and colleague is called Andreas. So...

F.


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PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 17:07 GMT 
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t00fri wrote:
Andrea wrote:
Andrea (not Andreas, anyhow :lol: )

Oh sorry for the typo. You know, my most long-time scientific collaborator (7 years!) [besides my wife] and colleague is called Andreas. So...F.

Fridger, I was jocking, you can call me even Andreino or Andreuccio, if you want (both are MALE names here!). :D
But what about the "no dull, no soft plastic colours rendering" of my post?
Any advice? 8)
Bye

Andrea :D

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PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 18:30 GMT 
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Quote:
But I would like to have the possibility to test this exhaust color with Runar's glow and plumes added, just to have a more complete comparison.
Runar, can we?


Of course.
Don´t you have the Extra install working yet?

If not, this is the download direct link:
http://www.celestialmatters.org/webmast ... .php?id=28

And you just unzip it in the same directory as the Buran Add-On. It will automatically work.

If you would like to experiment with the exhaust colors, all you need to do is to go into the
th_buran_extras/textures/medres/ directory and open the two plume and smoke PNG images there in Photoshop.

To change the Buran glow, you obviously have found the correct image already.

- Runar

PS: i would prefer that further discussion on this goes in the Buran thread, so that we can get feedback from more people, as this is the closed Admin forum.


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PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 18:52 GMT 
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Runar,

why don't you just transfer the posts over. This would give a smooth connection with what might follow.

F.

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PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 18:57 GMT 
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t00fri wrote:
Runar,

why don't you just transfer the posts over. This would give a smooth connection with what might follow.

F.


I don´t think we are able to merge the two topics, but i might be able to split it into a new thread and move it over. If not, i will just quote the relevant posts, to get them into the Buran thread.

- Runar


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PostPosted: Sun, 10-02-08, 19:23 GMT 
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I would split the thread and get the whole thing over. Use some fitting title which should be easy.

F.

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