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PostPosted: Sun, 09-09-07, 22:48 GMT 
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t00fri wrote:
Selden,

I don't think this is the problem here, see

Richard10 wrote:
I think I have at least a rudimentary comprehension of what a normal map is and what an elevation map is. I use normal maps, bump maps and displacement maps to create textures (static and variable) for 3D animations using high end 3D software and have done so for some time.


Bye Fridger


Here's the typical small scale normal map one would use with the tools I'm familiar with.

Image


They look nothing like what I expected to derive from the gebco.bin file.


Last edited by richard10 on Sun, 09-09-07, 22:55 GMT, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun, 09-09-07, 22:49 GMT 
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t00fri wrote:
richard10 wrote:
Thank you for your help Mr.
You've been quite useful in some ways.
Although your tools do in fact work and you are, I would say, somewhat expert in this field, ...


These three lines impressively summarize how you made me feel from the first day of "serving your needs":

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like an operator in a call center... :roll:
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And just for the records: This is an entirely free service...

Quote:
you are, I would say, somewhat expert in this field,


I doubt YOU are able to judge my expertise ;-)


That's the crux of your problem right there.


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PostPosted: Sun, 09-09-07, 23:02 GMT 
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ElChristou wrote:
:shock:
All those posts to conclude that this was the first time Richard10 saw a normal map!?... quite incredible indeed!!

Hey, Richard, next time, before entering in esoteric questions about command lines, try to ask first (if you are unable to find it by yourself) what is suppose to do the tool!! :lol:


I find it funny too that no one (no expert) noticed I had the correct file before I even posted here. :LMAO:

In any event, I doubt there'll be a next time, but I might come back to show you what I can do with this data and with other tools.


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PostPosted: Sun, 09-09-07, 23:05 GMT 
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Selden wrote:
Please don't forget that to most people, "normal" means average, conventional or standard. They have never before encountered its mathematical meaning (surface normal vectors) as it is used in 3D graphics. They are going to believe that software intended to manipulate normal maps is intended for use with maps of territory, not with heightmaps in order to generate shadows in realtime.


The gebco file opens slanted, SKEWED. I assumed it wasn't opening correctly. I even said as much in my first post. No one seems to have noticed.


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PostPosted: Sun, 09-09-07, 23:06 GMT 
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While a height map only associates simple numbers (the heights) with each point of a given surface, each pixel of a normal map (color-) encodes which direction in space that particular surface point is facing. This requires specification of the components of a 3-dimensional (unit) vector - the "normal vector" at each point (x,y) of the surface. It is orthogonal to the surface as it's name says.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's why a normal map is a RGB map while an elevation map is a graymap.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In Celestia, we overlay the normal maps over the base texture that contains essentially the color information of the celestial object's surface under consideration (planet, asteroid, etc). The purpose of the normal maps is to create a sense of dynamical shading of the surface, i.e. a variable shading, depending on the position of the light source (Sun, other star).

In various respects, normal maps represent the most important textures for the composite hires rendering of planetary surfaces. Let's take a moment to convince ourselves about the importance of normal maps:

The top image illustrates what Celestia would display, if we had discarded ALL textures BUT the normal map. But note well: while the "raw" normal map is a RGB color texture, it turns into a gray, shaded 3D "landscape" after the rendering! The image below the rendered normal map is called a RGB base map, containing all the color information, but NO shading. The lowest image impressively demonstrates how the base texture and the normal map cooperate in the rendering overlay to form a final, most detailed 3D image!

It is of crucial importance that the base texture and the normal map match precisely!

Image
Image


Another crucial requirement for hires normal maps is their high quality, meaning smoothness and the lack of noise! That's why I compute the whole normal map entirely at the 16bit = 2 byte level before it is truncated to 8bit as the last step.

For completenes, let me mention that there are further important textures that are overlaid in addition:
  • the specular map that carries the information which areas are to reflect the sun light (oceans) and which are to absorb it (land).
  • the cloud map with obvious meaning and
  • the nightlights map, again with obvious meaning.


Among my forthcoming F-TexTools, there will be a tool (tx2rgba) that mounts the specular graymap as alpha channel (A) on top of the RGB base texture, leading to a 4-channel RGBA texture. This strongly increases the performance and economizes on graphics card memory!!

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Last edited by t00fri on Sun, 09-09-07, 23:34 GMT, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun, 09-09-07, 23:28 GMT 
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richard10 wrote:
...In any event, I doubt there'll be a next time,


You do have a strange way to thank people wanting to help you... :?

richard10 wrote:
...but I might come back to show you what I can do with this data and with other tools.


Perso I will be happy to see some work of yours because after all, as your tone seems to mean that you are sure of your skills, this work will be without a doubt something great... :D


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PostPosted: Sun, 09-09-07, 23:33 GMT 
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ElChristou wrote:
richard10 wrote:
...In any event, I doubt there'll be a next time,


You do have a strange way to thank people wanting to help you... :?

richard10 wrote:
...but I might come back to show you what I can do with this data and with other tools.


Perso I will be happy to see some work of yours because after all, as your tone seems to mean that you are sure of your skills, this work will be without a doubt something great... :D


I wouldn't say I feel as though people here wish to help me as much as help themselves look good and promote their interests. If genuine help had been on offer this thread would have ended long ago.

As for my project, it isn't exactly "my" work. After all I didn't create the current state of the earth's surface and won't take credit for representing it. Lol


Last edited by richard10 on Mon, 10-09-07, 13:10 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun, 09-09-07, 23:38 GMT 
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Chris,

take me in your arms,...I am exhausted by our friend ;-) . I do need a Laotian Pizza NOW...

Cheers,
Bye Fridger

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PostPosted: Sun, 09-09-07, 23:45 GMT 
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t00fri wrote:
Chris,

take me in your arms,...I am exhausted by our friend ;-) . I do need a Laotian Pizza NOW...


Too bad, tonight it's spaghetti alla carbonara... sorry... :x


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PostPosted: Sun, 09-09-07, 23:45 GMT 
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richard10 wrote:
[
I wouldn't say I feel as though people here wish to help me as much as help themselves look good and promote their interests. If genuine help had been on offer this thread would have been over long ago.


So, writing 2+ pages of exchanges with you is not "help"? Ok.
It seems you came here with a misconception about what the tools could do for you. That in itself is quite cool, people do misunderstand stuff, but please don´t showel it under the carpet by trying to make it look like the author´s fault. That is just... Kind of lame.

- rthorvald

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PostPosted: Sun, 09-09-07, 23:47 GMT 
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t00fri wrote:
Chris,

take me in your arms,...I am exhausted by our friend ;-) . I do need a Laotian Pizza NOW...

Cheers,
Bye Fridger


I'm off and I bid you good night.

Please. Don't strain yourself too much.

:D


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PostPosted: Sun, 09-09-07, 23:48 GMT 
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rthorvald wrote:
richard10 wrote:
[
I wouldn't say I feel as though people here wish to help me as much as help themselves look good and promote their interests. If genuine help had been on offer this thread would have been over long ago.


So, writing 2+ pages of exchanges with you is not "help"? Ok.
It seems you came here with a misconception about what the tools could do for you. That in itself is quite cool, people do misunderstand stuff, but please don´t showel it under the carpet by trying to make it look like the author´s fault. That is just... Kind of lame.

- rthorvald


You are too predictable.


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PostPosted: Sun, 09-09-07, 23:51 GMT 
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ElChristou wrote:
t00fri wrote:
Chris,

take me in your arms,...I am exhausted by our friend ;-) . I do need a Laotian Pizza NOW...


Too bad, tonight it's spaghetti alla carbonara... sorry... :x


::Shaking my head::


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PostPosted: Sun, 09-09-07, 23:51 GMT 
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richard10 wrote:
I wouldn't say I feel as though people here wish to help me as much as help themselves look good and promote their interests. If genuine help had been on offer this thread would have ended long ago.


Yesterday you alleged in public that I was dishonest and did not print out that command line you wanted to see, because I knew that my tools would not work. Today -- after I spent /hours/ to sort out the problems related to your computer's inadequate memory situation-- you express your "gratitude" by stating that

"people here wish to help you as much as help themselves look good and promote their interests."

---------------------------------------------
How about saying Good Bye NOW!?
---------------------------------------------

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PostPosted: Sun, 09-09-07, 23:54 GMT 
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richard10 wrote:
...I wouldn't say I feel as though people here wish to help me as much as help themselves look good and promote their interests. If genuine help had been on offer this thread would have ended long ago....


Richard, what you have to understand is that perhaps you are skilled enough to understand quickly those huge image manipulations, but in general people asking for a minute ready solution are the one who have no idea of what they are doing, and in general such persons have no real interest in learning anything...

The politic here is to extend (if possible) the horizons of those who really need some help, and so, you will understand easily that this cannot be done without a couple of question to understand better the goals of the person and to adapt the help we (in this case Fridger) can give...


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